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 Marimba at A=442?
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| Author | Topic: Marimba at A=442? |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 11:36 AM
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I've decided to buy a Yamaha YM-40 marimba. It's a small, nice looking instrument that should work very well for our winery gigs next season. I hope to be switching off between pedal steel and marimba to add variety to our sound. I see a potential problem in that the marimba is tuned to A=442. If the guitars tune to that, I'll also have to raise the tuning of my steel. I'm a little nervous about 3rd string breakage at that higher pitch. I wonder how noticable the tuning difference would actually be if we kept the guitars at A=440. Has anyone here ever played in a band with an A=442 instrument? Does it sound out of tune, or just "brighter"? ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 11:37 AM
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This is the Yamaha YM-40:  |
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Steinar Gregertsen Member From: Arendal, Norway |
posted 24 August 2005 11:49 AM
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Isn't newer accordions also at 442? A couple of years ago an accordionist did overdubs on some tracks I had prepared, and he couldn't use his main accordion, had to grab one of his old ones. Not that it helps your marimba dilemma..... Steinar ------------------ [This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 24 August 2005 at 11:50 AM.] |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 24 August 2005 11:54 AM
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Admittedly I'm not an expert at this subject so my post is only my comment and not advice.... but I really have a hard time believing that 2 cents sharp (edit: my mistake, it's 2 hertz, not cents) would constitute a string breakage problem, or any other kind... we haven't had tuners around that many years... I'm sure we've all been more off-tune many times. Now I can really say this is just my 2 cents worth... [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 24 August 2005 at 12:16 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 12:06 PM
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It's not 2 cents. The difference between 440 Hz and 442 Hz is about 8 cents. I'm sure it's noticable - I'm just not sure that it would sound "out of tune". |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 24 August 2005 12:13 PM
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Yes, after I posted I realized, wait a minute, that's hertz, not cents.  I still don't believe it would be a problem, but as I said, this isn't my area of expertise... I have no doubt someone knows all about this... Dave Mudgett maybe? [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 24 August 2005 at 12:18 PM.] |
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Tom Olson Member From: Spokane, WA |
posted 24 August 2005 12:17 PM
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Not sure if this matters at all, but -- I wonder what affect temperature has on the tuning of the Marimba? My guess is that temp. would affect the tuning. Maybe warmer temps might cause the metal tubes to get longer, thus lowering the tuning slightly(??) I don't know if any temperature affect would be significant. But, if so, then the next question would be, "what temperature is the 442Hz reference tuning relative to?" Just a pure guess. |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 24 August 2005 12:19 PM
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Tom brings up a good point. You might have some variations in pitch at different temps. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 12:20 PM
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One way of looking at it is that the A note played of guitar against marimba will beat twice per second. That's not much compared to the beating of any ET major third on either instrument. |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 24 August 2005 12:27 PM
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Seems like no big deal to me... you could always do a test recording with it, play a track on it with a midi track or something, or even your band, tuned to A-440 and just listen to it. Record it. |
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Colm Chomicky Member From: Prairie Village, Kansas, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 12:54 PM
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Was wondering if you tune a Marimba with a hacksaw and file, just hope you don't tune too sharp?  And if you tune too sharp, don't get mad - just keep your temper. |
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Bob Hoffnar Member From: Brooklyn, NY |
posted 24 August 2005 02:11 PM
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I've never had a problem with a marimba on stage. They don't sustain hardly any and stay on there own side of the bed in ensembles. I have needed to deal with a glockenspiel on stage quite a bit and I would just as soon have somebody push thumbtacks into my forehead as go through that sonic nightmare. Bob |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 03:00 PM
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I've been told that a belt sander works pretty good, but I'd rather not have to deal with it. |
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Gene H. Brown Member From: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada |
posted 24 August 2005 03:54 PM
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Hey b0b, I have a chainsaw that will do the trick and you're welcome to borrow it anytime! ------------------ |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 24 August 2005 04:31 PM
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I think Bob's right, their sustain is on par with a mop-bucket, so hardly anyone will even notice if it's in tune or not!  Steel drums are the same way, they're all terribly out of tune, but no one really seems to mind. They hear a little "plink", and then the sound is just...gone! Think of bongos. People tune them together, so they're in tune with theirselves, but no one actually tries to tune them to any other instrument. Well, at least, nobody that I've ever heard of! [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 24 August 2005 at 04:35 PM.] |
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rpetersen Member From: Tipton, Iowa |
posted 24 August 2005 04:57 PM
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Electric heater or a Heat lamp???? If temperature does change the tuning. I'd like to see someones face when you tell them it's tuner!! ------------------ [This message was edited by rpetersen on 24 August 2005 at 04:58 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 05:03 PM
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The low notes do have a bit of resonance to them. |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 24 August 2005 05:27 PM
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Somebody stop him! That's a monster instrument. |
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Kiyoshi Osawa Member From: Mexico City, Mexico |
posted 24 August 2005 05:43 PM
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Hey bob! You should come down to mexico to see some wicked marimba players! My mother's home state of veracruz is home to the "lionel Hampton of latin-america" (also home of the michael jackson of mexico, but that's another story). Some players do it by family, so they have like the grampa doing solos in the top register, the father down low keeping the beat, and the son in the middle doing harmonies and stuff, all on the same instrument! Really cool stuff if your into marimba playing. ------------------ |
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Bill Hatcher Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA |
posted 24 August 2005 06:18 PM
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From what I have heard about 442 marimba tuning is this tuning sounds best when the marimba is used in an ensemble with piano and harp and glocks and such. If you have the instrument tuned 440, you might find that it "sounds" dull compared to the other instruments. Harmonicas are the same way. I have tuned harmonicas to 440 and found that they don't sound as nice as tuned a bit sharp. Something else not to forget about on a marimba is the tuning of the resonators under the bars. On a good marimba, you can tap the round piece in the bottom of the cylinder up and down to properly tune the resonator. This will correct dull sounding bars or bars that are not equal volume. This will not correct a dud bar, only equal out the sound of the marimba. You got a bad bar, only replacing it will fix that. |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 24 August 2005 07:28 PM
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Kiyoshi's right about marimba players here.... when my wife and I went to Coyoacàn to see Frida Kahlo and Diego Rivera's houses, we came across some marimba players setup on the sidewalk in front of some sidewalk cafe's, sometimes two marimbas with 2 or 3 players on each one, what a sound. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 24 August 2005 at 08:07 PM.] |
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Lee Baucum Member From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) - The Final Frontier |
posted 25 August 2005 06:36 AM
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If you did decide to try to tune the marimba, you would have to add wood to each bar. It's already sharp of 440. Lee |
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David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 25 August 2005 07:02 AM
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Marimbas are for tropical climates. When you bring them up to Northern California, they go sharp. But seriously, it may have been tuned a little sharp to get a brighter sound, as mentioned above, in which case it seems like everyone else should tune as they normally do. On pedal steel I tune my Es to 442 to account for cabinet drop and stretch tuning (most steel playing is in the higher registers). I got the stretch idea from one of Paul Franklin's posts, where he said he tuned to 442 to match the stretch tuning of keyboards. Do you think there is any stretch involved in marimba tuning? I'm not sure how its octaves relate to piano. At any rate, I haven't noticed any more string breakage since I started tuning to 442. As for the marimba, I think we can theorize all we want, but the only way to tell is to listen to it live with other instruments, and maybe record it both ways for careful listening. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 25 August 2005 08:52 AM
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quote:Not true. You can lower the pitch by removing wood from the center node on the underside of the bars. Like I said before, a belt sander works well for this. The trick is keeping the harmonics in tune. They are controlled by the secondary node points. You really need a good strobe tuner or an excellent ear to properly tune marimba keys. You raise the pitch by shortening the bar. ------------------ |
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Dan Sawyer Member From: Studio City, California, USA |
posted 28 August 2005 11:42 AM
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The 442 tuning is probably done for playing the marimba in orchestras, where the string players often tune sharp. Many modern marimbas are not made of wood, so temperature will not affect them. I would talk to Yamaha directly about this. They may be able to tune it to your specs. Suzuki did this for me on a pro model Melodian. Harmonicas are tuned sharp on purpose, because the harder they are blown, the flatter they get. |
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Tom Olson Member From: Spokane, WA |
posted 28 August 2005 12:50 PM
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quote: ? are they made out of some type of material that's not affected by temperature? What material is it? |
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David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 28 August 2005 02:15 PM
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Yes, I've noticed that harmonicas appear to be tuned to about 442. I thought it might be stretch tuning (those little devils are pretty high pitched), but compensation for blowing flat sounds like another good reason. |
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Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA |
posted 28 August 2005 03:06 PM
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b0b. Don't worry. If there are instruments that tune 15 cents off one way or the other, you're home free.. EJL |
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Michael Barone Member From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 28 August 2005 05:07 PM
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The slight dissonance may be a desirable characteristic. Often, I detune some MIDI orchestral instruments around +/-4 to +/-6 cents. It creates a fat sound, with a 10 cent span in some areas. +8 cents would fit right in there. IMHO b0b, your marimba has an advantage. It may contribute toward the creation of a lively mix. ------------------ |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 29 August 2005 03:11 AM
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b0b, Is it a left-handed marimba?  Charlie the Moth [This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 29 August 2005 at 03:15 AM.] |
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Larry Robbins Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA |
posted 29 August 2005 01:18 PM
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Where are the knee levers? |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 30 August 2005 08:41 AM
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Know knee levers. Mrs. Lee "formally" approved the purchase of a Yamaha YM-40 last night. I think she's getting tired of the clunky sound of the Saito, and realizes that I need a better instrument. It seems that no place in the US has one in in stock for sale, and the Yamaha warehouse in the midwest is waiting for a shipment from Japan. Maybe 3 weeks. A Yamaha dealer in Fairfield California has been very helpful over the phone, and matched MF's price without even being asked to. I'm going to order it from him. ------------------ |
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Jon Zimmerman Member From: California, USA |
posted 01 September 2005 10:22 AM
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Janice B., who would you pick as Moderator for the new Marimba forum? Do they have to have good vibes? JZ |
Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: 
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