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Author
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Topic: Emmons 108N Humbuckers
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 12 January 2004 12:47 PM
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I've been thinking about trying a set of these and I've heard they're pretty close to the single coils. Anybody out there using these?Thanks
David
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Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 12 January 2004 01:28 PM
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If you play an Emmons guitar, "nothing" will sound better than the 108 (with exception to the original single coil), especially if you play a "LeGrande!" Lot's of power and great tone, as well as "NOISELESS!" They're made by Emmons for an Emmons. It can't get any better than that. Period! Can't speak for other brands of steels, but from my own experience and "lots" of pickup swapping", the 108 is the pickup that has worked out to be the best in an Emmons if you're looking for power, great tone, and "NO HUM!" Especially in a LeGrande. Dave
Emmons 8/8 LeGrande III, w/108 humbuckers |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 12 January 2004 01:40 PM
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Thanks for the info Dave. I play a 71 Emmons. I wonder if the older guitars have the holes already tapped for the humbuckers? It looks like to me, that since the screws go through the coils on the 108's, that you would have to have another set of holes tapped in the mounting plate to make this work. Am I right? Thanks
David [This message was edited by David Mullis on 12 January 2004 at 01:43 PM.]
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Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 12 January 2004 05:22 PM
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I have a LeGrande II mica D10 with the 108N's and it sounds great. I recorded with it last week and fell in love with it all over again. A great sounding guitar. It holds its own very well with any of my push pull guitars!
Jerry |
stingray
Member From: maplewood ohio
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posted 12 January 2004 05:32 PM
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Hi There
You will want to make sure that you get the 108N..they have 3 differant ones... M,N,B..
I think that the 108N has a very sweet nat. sound..not brittle sounding...very smooth!------------------
Gary L.Converse
(teach a kid how to play steel) KEEP PICKING! [This message was edited by stingray on 12 January 2004 at 05:33 PM.]
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 12 January 2004 05:35 PM
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Thanks guys, the 108N's are what I'm getting. Looks like I may have to get new mounting plates as well. Either that or try to tap the ones I have.... |
Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 12 January 2004 08:25 PM
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David,
be sure you get the pickup mounting plates and screws. While you might be able to use your old plates, it is much easier to get the new ones that are already pre-drilled to fit the 108's. They use 4 tiny little screws that go down through the middle of each side of the pickup.
When you order your pickups, tell Ronnie what you are going to mount them in. He'll give you a little instruction into putting them in. It's real simple. And be sure to tell them I said "Hello!"
Let me know what you think when you get them in.Dave |
Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 12 January 2004 08:33 PM
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Oh yeah, one more thing. The pickups are designated as 106B, 108N, and 110M. The 106"B" stands for "bright" (hense the letter "B"), while the 108"N" stands for "normal" ("N"), and the 110 "M" stands for "mellow" ("M").
The 108N is the pickup most people prefer. It is wound in the 20-22.5K range, which will sound closest to the 18-19K stock single coil Emmons pickup. Depending on the range of you current pickup, it may sound slightly heavier if your stock Emmons single coil would happen to be on the light side. However, the 108N is still the best range, as opposed to the 106 or 110 humbuckers. If you were to order a new LeGrande with a humbucker pickup, the 108N would be the pickup they would install as their "standard" humbucker. As long as you tell them you want the "108 humbucker" you'll be alright. Dave [This message was edited by Dave Robbins on 12 January 2004 at 08:42 PM.]
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 12 January 2004 08:34 PM
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Thanks Dave, The ones I'll be getting are used, but from what I understand the screws are comming with them. I'll give Ron a call this week and order some plates. Thanks again for all the info! Take Care
David
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BILL
Member From: UNION BRIDGE, MARYLAND USA
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posted 13 January 2004 02:24 PM
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I don't think you can go wrong with the 108N. The 108N is the best I have tried. ------------------
BILL ERB |
Bob Snelgrove
Member From: san jose, ca
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posted 14 January 2004 02:33 PM
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DaveYou ever tried the BL 710? I just heard an mp3 by Ed Ringwald with that PU and it sounds so Emmonsish 
http://steelgtr.home.netcom.com/america.mp3 bob |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 14 January 2004 08:28 PM
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Howdy Bob, I tried a 710 in the E9 neck of the 82 push pull that I had and I didn't like it at all. Actually the only guitar I've owned that I liked the 710 in was an LDG. While my 71 was being restored, I borrowed a friends Legrande II and it had 710's in it. I didn't like it at all playing it at home, but, it sounded great when I played gigs. If I don't like the 108's I'll probably just put the single coils back in and live with the hum. |
Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 14 January 2004 08:54 PM
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Bob'
I have heard the 710's in a couple of different LeGrandes and they weren't to my liking for the sound I prefer.Dave |
Bob Snelgrove
Member From: san jose, ca
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posted 14 January 2004 10:36 PM
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Did you guys listen to that mp3? Just curious to hear your take on the tone of those 710's?I love the SC stock pu's on my '78 D-10. I never hear any hum because of the outstanding noise gate in the Roland GP-100. bob |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 15 January 2004 12:19 AM
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Nice track.Good tone for sure.But not the tone I associate with single coils. Now to drift back towards the topic.I have 108 N's on one of my LeGrandes and like them a lot................bb |
John Macy
Member From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 15 January 2004 12:05 PM
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When I put the 108N's on my push pull, I did not even have to change one setting on my amps, it was that close (exceept no more hum). |
Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 15 January 2004 12:28 PM
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Again, one of the reasons for using the 108N is not having to need the use of something like a noise gate.  Dave |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 15 January 2004 01:52 PM
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Hey Dave! I got the plates ordered today. Ron said howdy right back at ya! Hopefully the pickups will be here soon. I can't wait to try them. I agree on the noise gate thing too. Sometimes I just like running straight to the amp, no extras just pure steel and a little reverb from the amp itself By the way Dave, what's the recomended height on these pickups?
[This message was edited by David Mullis on 15 January 2004 at 05:10 PM.] |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 15 January 2004 03:16 PM
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Hey Dave..make sure you get Black Pickups..they sound better..  !!t ok..this was Stephen Gambrells quote..I stole it..[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 January 2004 at 04:11 PM.] |
Bob Hempker
Member From: Hollister, Mo.
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posted 16 January 2004 05:36 PM
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I totally agree with what Dave R. said. I have 2 LeGrande III's, and I have those PU's on both of them. I had no trouble transferring to a '78 p/p with single coils to these guitars with the 108N's. That's just my opinion.------------------
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 16 January 2004 06:15 PM
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Hey Y'all! The pickups arrived today, now I'm just waiting on the mounting plates. Any recomendations on pickup height??Thanks
David
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Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 16 January 2004 11:42 PM
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David,
there are variables in setting pickup heights. In my LeGrande III the heights are pre-determined at the factory and are not adjustible, however, from my experimenting, that height is really optimized already. But, on another guitar with adjustible heights, you would probably want these as close as you can get them with out bumping the strings when you play, which can really be determined by your "attack". My 108's are set at just slightly over a quarter's thickness (something like a quarter and a half). The C6 neck is another game altogether because of the string gauges. Get them close but with out bumping the strings when you're playing. Then try to fine tune them with your "ear." Any doubts? GIVE RONNIE A CALL. He tell how they do it there at the factory.I'm anxious to hear your results. Dave |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 17 January 2004 06:14 AM
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Thanks Dave! I'm anxious to hear them too! The plates should arrive today since I'm not that far from Emmons (about 2.5 - 3 hours) Thanks for all of the info!Take Care
David
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Charlie Moore
Member From: Deville, Louisiana, USA
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posted 17 January 2004 10:04 AM
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Well David,did ya hold a gun to buster's head to get them 108's,he told me you got them,they really sounded great in my p/p i just wanted to put the original pick up's back in my p/p,i needed a little HUM in my amp nowhatimean, ha..cya.. Charlie....... |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 17 January 2004 08:04 PM
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Hey Charlie, naw, I didn't have to get the ole .45 out. Buster sent me an email and surprised me earlier this week when he said he had decided not to use the pickups. He's a good dude! The plates showed up today. I'll probably put them in tomorow. By the way Charlie, Your pedal will go out Monday! Take Care
David
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 18 January 2004 02:58 PM
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Well I got em in there, the jury is still out though. I figure I'll give them a month or so and see how I like them. I still have hum though! I noticed that I have more hum here in my house than I did at band practice last night while I still had the single coils in there, lots more! Wassup with that? Something with the way the house was wired? |
Charlie Moore
Member From: Deville, Louisiana, USA
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posted 18 January 2004 07:42 PM
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David,if you are using them in an emmons make sure the wires coming out of the p/up are not touching the changer post,if it is it WILL hum,also run them(the p/up's) close to string's as you can........ cya ..Charlie.... |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 18 January 2004 07:53 PM
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Thanks Charlie, this hum isn't comming from the pickup though. I've been chasing this thing for a while. I noticed that I had a lot less hum last night at practice than I do at home. It must be a lighting or wiring thing in my house. |
BILL
Member From: UNION BRIDGE, MARYLAND USA
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posted 18 January 2004 08:12 PM
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I had the same problem. I called the Emmons company and they told me to cover the bottom with a good grade of electric tape. It worked for me. I have no hum at all now.------------------
BILL ERB |
Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 18 January 2004 10:14 PM
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David, The 108 is a "noiseless" pickup. There will not be any hum from using them. Charlie is right. The lugs that stick out the side of the pickup where the wires are attached, you are suppose to cover with electrical tape. They are not supposed to touch anything! The lugs shouldn't be pressed against the pickup plate either.
By the way, it is a good idea to wrap a turn or two of electrical tape around the pickup mounting plate in the area of the lugs, if they are not already wrapped. I have a customer's guitar here on my bench right now and my own guitar, and both have the 108's. Both are "stone quiet" even when the "volume pedal and amp are wide open!" I have installed the 108N pickups in other people's guitars and have had no problem with noise ever. If you unplug the guitar from the amp, do you still have the hum? If you get hum when you plug the guitar in then you have a problem at the guitar. If the amp sets there and hums without the guitar plugged in, then the problem is not the guitar or pickup. No pickup will help an amp that is humming without anything being plugged into it. The problem is elsewhere. (Try lifting the ground, checking the reverb, etc.) After you installed the pickup did you check to make sure the ohm rating is still correct? Before I install a pickup I check the ohm rating with my ohm meter to see what the pickup is reading (and make sure it is OK). Then, once the pickup is installed, I again check to make sure the ohm rating is still in the "ball park". If it isn't, or doesn't read properly, then it is a sure bet there is a problem with the soldering job, or a grounding problem, wiring, etc. Be sure to check the ohm rating with a meter, before and after. If the pickup is fine, and it is a "108N", it will read in the vicinity of 20-22.5K ohms, approximately. If there is a problem with the installation of the pickup it will not sound optimum. I had a customer who had installed a pickup in his guitar, but he said it didn't quite sound right to him. When we checked the ohm rating we couldn't get it to read right. Turns out that one of the wires had come loose inside the pickup. It still had volume, supprisingly, but just didn't sound right. When installing a pickup, an ohm meter is your best friend! Give Ronnie a call if you have any further trouble. He's put them in countless guitars and if anybody knows anything about them it'll be him. Dave
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 19 January 2004 07:03 AM
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Thanks Dave, I really don't think it's the pickups. I put tape over the leads on the bottom of the pickups and I checked them with my DVM before trying them out and they read within the range you stated. I really think at this point it's something else in my house that's causing the problem.
Now, I'm going to turn around and contradict myself by saying this, but, the hum isn't as bad with the guitar unplugged. However, since I had minimal hum with the exact same rig somewhere else the other night, I can't help but believe there's something other than my rig that's causing this. I may be wrong, I'll try some of the other suggestions as well. Thanks
David
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 19 January 2004 07:16 AM
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I just checked the voltage comming into my house, it's at 124v. I even checked it on the other side of my power conditioner, same thing. Talked to a buddy of mine who does electrical work, he says that's a little high and could definitely be causing the problem. He says that 110 - 115 would be optimal. What do y'all think?
Thanks
David
[This message was edited by David Mullis on 19 January 2004 at 08:06 AM.]
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Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 19 January 2004 10:37 PM
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David,here in my music room/shop the AC runs 122v. No noise. Try setting up someone else's guitar and/or amp and see what happens with their stuff. Years ago at a small home studio, I did some recording for a person and periodically we would get "hum" on the recording. After frantically trying to figure out why, we discovered that everytime the refrigerator kicked on we got the noise!  LOL! (We wound up unplugging the 'fridge until we were through.  ) Dave[This message was edited by Dave Robbins on 19 January 2004 at 10:37 PM.] |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 19 January 2004 11:02 PM
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Thanks for the info Dave. This whole pickup change has turned out to be a huge mess. I got to noticing that the magnets weren't lining up right on the strings on the E9 side. The strings were lining up between the magnets instead of in the center of the magnets. I noticed that the holes on the mounting plates were off center, so I figured, cool, I can just flip the plat over and be in good shape! I took the E9 strings off, took the screws out of the pickup and checked to make sure I had enough slack to just lay the pickup out of the way to flip the plate, when I did, the ground lead broke off. I figured, no big deal, I'll just resolder it, well when I tried to resolder it, the dang leg broke off!!!
I should have known better than to work on it on a Monday!!! I'm sure you guys think I'm an idiot at this point, screwing up a perfectly good pickup in just 24 hours. Maybe I'll just cut my losses and put the stock single coils back in. As for the humbuckers, they're going to Jerry Wallace to be fixed. I guess I'll hang onto them just in case I ever get a second guitar.
I talked to another electrican about hum. He suggested trying setting up my rig in another room. I have a lot of computer equipment in the house and he said that computer puwer supplies can be noisey. Hell I may just unplug everything in the house except for my rig and see what happens. Before I screwed the pickup up tonight, I did plug just the guitar straight into the amp, no rack, not even an volume pedal, still got hum. I'm convinced it's somewhere else. Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. I'll post my findings later. Right now, I need a drink and to go to bed! It's been a rough night! Thanks
David
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Dave Robbins
Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA
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posted 20 January 2004 10:23 PM
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[b]David,you are definitely having a difficult time! Especially with such a simple project. Too bad I'm not close enough to give ya a hand. No offence to Jerry Wallace, but I think I'd definitely give Ronnie a call and send it/them to him. If memory serves me correct, Ronnie is the guy who winds them suckers! Good luck,
Dave |
Buster Warren
Member From: Charlotte,N.C. USA
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posted 20 January 2004 11:01 PM
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David, why didn't you call me,,, I could have helped you find your trouble,,,,,?? ------------------
Thank's> Buster,"JAM4FUN" |
Bob Snelgrove
Member From: san jose, ca
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posted 21 January 2004 03:51 PM
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Did you ever try the amp with no guitar plugged in?bob |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 21 January 2004 05:50 PM
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Dave, I guess it was just bad luck. I've changed pickups in other guitars lots of time with no trouble. I've even worked on my own amps, installed peavey mods etc and I work on about everything that's electronics or telecom related in the hospital where I work. Thanks again for all of the advice and info. I'll let ya know the next time I head up to Gnashville.
Buster, trust me, you didn't want me calling you at 1am when I was working on this! hah hah but if you insist, the next time I'm up late working on a project, I'll give you a call!
Bob, there is some hum there with just the amp but, it's more pronounced with the guitat plugged in. I haven't had much of a chance to experiment, but hopefully I can work on that this weekend. Thanks guys!
David |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 21 January 2004 09:43 PM
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Do they hum when you're not plugged into an amp? .........Just picking on you David.Sorry for your bad luck..Regards...bb |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 22 January 2004 02:40 AM
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David..sorry to hear of your adventure.You could have called me and brought all your gear over here as well..but do be advised.. at 1:00AM I have the "David Mullis Detection Device" turned on and your call would have been automatically forwarded to the Fairfield Resorts Vacation Timeshare hotline ! see ya soon..
t |
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