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Author
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Topic: Obsolete Instruments?
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Doug Beaumier
Member From: Northampton, MA
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posted 27 August 2002 01:23 PM
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This Site has lots of useful info and photos of Gibson lap steels. The descriptions of Gibson guitars appear to come directly out of Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars. The guy who put the site together rates each guitar for collectibility using a letter system: A+ to D-The following statements appear on the site and they really rub me the wrong way... how about you?
Note on LapSteel Collectibility. "I don't individually rate each lapsteel model for collectibility, because they all pretty much fall into a "D" or "D-" category. Remember, they are basically obsolete instruments by todays standards. Therefore they are only interesting as historical sidenotes. "
Lapsteel for Sale?
"No, lapsteels are not worth a lot of money. They are basically obsolete as musical instruments (the pedal steel did them in), though some rare musicians still use them today. They do have historical significance, but since they aren't viewed as "viable" instruments today, their values are fairly low. Because of their historical importance, I am interested in buying lapsteels if they are priced "reasonable". Just thought I'd mention this before you email me asking $1000 for your lapsteel!"
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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories [This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 27 August 2002 at 01:30 PM.]
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Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 27 August 2002 01:40 PM
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I love lap steels (and don't play pedals), but the guy has a point, lapsteels are "basically obsolete by today's standards" and serve only a small niche market. That's why there are so few lap steel makers and no major companies make them anymore. The demand is just too small. That being said, they're still the some of the coolest instruments around and in the right hands make some of the best music around. |
Doug Beaumier
Member From: Northampton, MA
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posted 27 August 2002 02:03 PM
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Yes, I guess I have to agree. Maybe it's just the way the guy worded his statements that rubs me the wrong way. He must have some respect for lap steels since he listed them on his site with photos. |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 27 August 2002 02:46 PM
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Obsolete? maybe so, I'm always on the wrong team, sigh...I guess the non-pedal steel guitar doesn't have the same lasting power as say... Vanilla Ice, The New Kids On The Block or The Back Street Boys. And maybe it doesn't have the "forever etched in the minds of mankind" status as say New Coke, The McLean Sandwich or Pillsbury Space Food Sticks. And I guess it doesn't share the evergreen like quality of the Cabbage Patch Kids, Tickle Me Elmo or Beanie Babies (DON'T REMOVE THE TAG!!!). There are a few things that seem to last forever though... whoopy cushions, taxes and tatoos.  ------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 27 August 2002 at 02:47 PM.]
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 27 August 2002 04:16 PM
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It's hard to think of lap steel as obsolete after listening to The Vanduras or Double Naught Spy Car. I don't complain about the low prices of vintage lap steels, though!------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
Doug Beaumier
Member From: Northampton, MA
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posted 27 August 2002 04:39 PM
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quote:
the pedal steel did them in
Not so... they are different instruments. The lap steel has an identity all it's own, and it might even outlive the pedal steel in the long run. okay.. I'm talkin' 100s of years from now! |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed. Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 27 August 2002 04:48 PM
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Maybe this "novice" should play the infield
and come out of "left field" its lonely out
there.Karnak has spoken. |
Brandin
Member From: Newport Beach CA. USA
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posted 27 August 2002 07:30 PM
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Thanks b0b, I'm glad 'The Vanduras' are not obsolete. |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 28 August 2002 12:04 AM
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As far as I'm concerned it is like comparing apples to oranges. The lap is one breed, the pedal another. Each has a beauty of its own. I doubt the lap guitar will ever become obsolete any more than the violin. Jerry Byrd and his deciples will certainly see to that! I have never played pedals and doubt I ever will. I have no problem playing gigs on lap. As far as Hawaiian music is concerned, (my specialty), IMHO the lap is THE instrument ... the pedal just doesn't cut it as sweetly as the lap. On the other hand, the pedal could be considered superior to the lap on country swing although that can be debated, I'm sure. (Murphey, Speedy, Carver, et al). |
Andy Greatrix
Member From: Edmonton Alberta
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posted 28 August 2002 01:40 AM
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This guy is living proof that there will never be a shortage of uninformed opinions.
He means well, I'm sure. |
Jim Landers
Member From: Spokane, Wash.
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posted 28 August 2002 12:18 PM
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quote:
I am interested in buying lapsteels if they are priced "reasonable". Just thought I'd mention this before you email me asking $1000 for your lapsteel!"
I think the guy is on a fishing expedition, trolling for suckers. Jim |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 28 August 2002 01:29 PM
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BTW - The website that started this whole discussion has been online for about six years now. The lap steel section and it's content has not changed much if at all in all that time.------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
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Andy Zynda
Member From: Wisconsin
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posted 28 August 2002 01:48 PM
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Obsolete my ass.
Look at what's happening with Dobro/Resonators right now.
2 years ago when I wanted mine, it was a real bear just to locate a dealer.
Now musicians friend has close to a dozen listed in their catalog.
just wait...
It's all a big merry-go-round.
-andy- |
Doug Beaumier
Member From: Northampton, MA
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posted 28 August 2002 01:53 PM
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Maybe the resurgence of interest in lap steel in the past 6 years means that they are no longer obsolete  And maybe it's time for that guy to upgrade the instruments from D- to C- ?? |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed. Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 28 August 2002 03:20 PM
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He ought to see me,,Im obsolete as well  |
Ray Montee
Member From: Portland, OR, USA
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posted 28 August 2002 07:11 PM
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Andy Greatrix.........to WHOM...pray tell, were you referring in that cutting remark??? |
Ziggie
Member From: Freeland, Mi. USA
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posted 28 August 2002 08:31 PM
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I think the guy has tunnel vision. How can something be obsolete if it's still being used? What about the Country Swing bands, Hawaian bands, and people like Jr. Brown, Cindy Cashdollar, Jerry Bird ect., that use lap steels or non pedal steels and are makeing great music with it. If you can make music on it......it's good.------------------
Don Zeitler aka Ziggie |
Doug Beaumier
Member From: Northampton, MA
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posted 28 August 2002 09:07 PM
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Ray, Andy G. was referring to the guy who put the web site together and wrote the comments about lap steels being obsolete, non-viable, historical sidenotes. ------------------
My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories
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mikey
Member From: Hawaii, Big Island
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posted 28 August 2002 09:18 PM
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Obsolete?...I guess if you don't play an instrument...so I guess the Vanduras, Junior Brown, David Gilmore, Jimmy Page, Dave Lindley, Ben Harper, Bob Brozman and all of us, et. al. are also obsolete. I don't get this guy's take, Like I said, he must not be a Musician in any way shape or form...probably buys guitars and keeps 'em in a vault...if you don't play it, is it still an instrument?...I've jammed w/ guys on jugs and tissue combs and washtub/broomhandle single string basses...obsolete?...not if you can make MUSIC with it.Let's give this guy the Forum's Idiot of the Year award.
Mike |
Andy Volk
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 29 August 2002 04:35 AM
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As Gerald says, the content is 6 years old so it's not worth worrying losing sleep about. As we all know, the lap steel is more visible right now than at any time in the last 40 years. |
Doug Beaumier
Member From: Northampton, MA
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posted 29 August 2002 08:33 AM
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You're right Andy, but it would be nice to see the site update their assessment of lap steels to reflect the current interest. The site owner is strictly a collector/dealer of vintage guitars. I wonder if he knows that there are a lot of non-pedal steels that are now worth more than some vintage guitars? |
Tom Campbell
Member From: Houston, Texas, USA
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posted 29 August 2002 08:36 AM
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Musicians Friend does not sell/deal in obsolete or "dead" instruments. With that said, check out their site for the Sierra lap and Sierra Artist S-10!! |
Glenn Austin
Member From: Montreal, Canada
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posted 29 August 2002 09:22 AM
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How often have you heard guys like this in music stores. They're not really interested in your guitar, but they'll take it off your hands for a 100 bucks just to help you out and be a good sport. This guy is a snake in the grass! |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 29 August 2002 09:57 AM
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I encore Ray's question as it, (Andy's) appeared immediately below my thread...
??????????????????????????????????? !! |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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posted 29 August 2002 10:02 AM
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Steel guitars were the first solid body axes right ?
the Teles, Les Pauls,+ Strats came after.
Obsolete? Naw! Funky Yeah !
i often look at ebay, to have an idea of what's on the market and get to know the different models.
i don't know if many actually sell but there's always new ones comin' up.
Steels+PSGs: 150 models a week ?
the sellers often mention "having tried to play Slide or Steel but gave up, did'nt pursue, etc...
some are buyin''em to hang on the wall ?  ?
i won't comment the site y'all talkin'bout cause i just looked at the piktures !
More SteelsGuits !
[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 29 August 2002 at 10:03 AM.]
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Andy Greatrix
Member From: Edmonton Alberta
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posted 29 August 2002 05:14 PM
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To Ray and George, I was talking about the guy who wrote that lap steels were obsolete.
I thought that I was clear about that, but apparently I wasn't. My opoligies. |
R. L. Jones
Member From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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posted 29 August 2002 07:49 PM
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Just as an observer, The Hawiian steel guitar is becoming more popular, The Sheerhorns , Beards, etc. Dobros , Benoit`s . All these are brand names for the old Hawiian steel`s ,accoustic. For years theyve been called dobros, DOBRO is Gibson`s brand name for steel guitar. R.L.Jones |
Doug Beaumier
Member From: Northampton, MA
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posted 29 August 2002 10:59 PM
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wow, this topic has really touched a nerve here. I knew it would! |
John Drury
Member From: Gallatin, Tn USA
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posted 30 August 2002 05:45 AM
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Not a viable instrument? This dork has clearly never heard Billy Robinson, or Kayton Roberts spank the plank. The guy is probably making a fortune off of all these supposed canoe paddles people are sending him thinking that they aren't worth squat.John Drury
NTSGA #0003 |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed. Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 30 August 2002 02:31 PM
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Tom Morell,,Joaquin,,,Boggs,,Koefer..John Ely,,,Jerry Byrd,,,Speedy,,,Remington. Vance
Terry..Roy Wiggins,,what more can I say? There are others but the names go on and on. These players recordings are available presently...you tell me. Obsolete??? I DONT THINK SO. Who else did I leave out??? |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 30 August 2002 04:49 PM
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No problem Andy....just wanted to be sure. Jody, you left out one BIG name... "JODY CARVER" ! |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed. Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 31 August 2002 08:33 AM
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George
I have never considered myself in the class of those mentioned. I tell long stories though. [This message was edited by Jody Carver on 31 August 2002 at 12:55 PM.] |
John Kavanagh
Member From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada
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posted 05 September 2002 08:44 AM
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"Obsolete" is a funny word to use for a musical instrument, anyway. Different tools do different jobs well, and as musical needs change, sometimes the tools change. But musical fashion is a very changeable thing, and the mainstream isn't the only stream, and people are always finding new ways to use old tools. My perspective on this is that I've spent most of my adult life playing the viola da gamba, an instrument that was first declared "obsolete" almost 300 years ago. But I like it, dammit, and I'm stubborn. Don't ANY of you guys sell your Stringmasters. And if you do, call me first. |
Warren Slavin
Member From: Southampton, PA, 18966. USA
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posted 07 September 2002 06:20 PM
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Jody Carver said it all on the subject of obsolete lap steels -- I would like to add the many Hawaiian lap steel players that thrilled the world before Pedal Steel. Pedal Steel is great for C/W music just as lap steel was played in C/W bands before Pedals came out. Those names are: David Keli'i, Dick McIntire, Andy Iona, Bobby Nichols, Danny Stewart, Joe Custino, Jules Ah See, Barney Isaacs, Sol Ho'opi'i, Tommy Castro, Hal Aloma, Eddy Pang, Jake Keli'ikoa.These were the Hawaiian Lap Steel Players that we listened to back then and today -- all are deceased now -- I'm sure I missed some. Hawaiian Music sounds best on a lap steel or a non-pedal console. Thank you for listening (reading).
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 07 September 2002 07:21 PM
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Rock guitar icon Steve Kimock plays "lapsteel" for about a third of his show, mostly on a Fender double 6. |
Mike Ihde
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 07 September 2002 09:31 PM
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Don't forget Joe Perry from Aerosmith. He has played Lap Steel on plenty of their cuts and a few years back he got a custom 6 string Pedal Steel from the late Freeman Cougar which he used on their last album "Just Push Play." So, there are still a lot of guys using it in the Pop/Rock world. |
Andy Greatrix
Member From: Edmonton Alberta
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posted 08 September 2002 12:02 AM
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Also the guy in pink floyd plays lap steel.
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Andy Volk
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 08 September 2002 04:41 AM
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And let's also remember ...
Steve Howe, Cindy Cashdollar, Greg Leisz, Gary Brandin, Ben Harper, Kelly Joe Phelps, John Ely, Alan Akaka, Sonny Rhodes, Freddie Roulette, Paul Franklin, Jerry Douglas, Bobby Ingano, Rob Icks, The Campbell Brothers, Robert Randolph, David Lindley, Jr. Brown and many more. |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 08 September 2002 10:04 PM
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The great blues guitarist Jimmie Vaughan also plays lap steel and took some lessons with Jerry Byrd.------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association |
Andy Volk
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 09 September 2002 03:28 AM
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I remember an interview where Jimmy said his personal nickname for lap steel was "Sleepy Guitar". |
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