I'm new around here... actually I'm a pro guitarist by trade but I'm interested in learning to play non-pedal steel. I've played slide guitar for many years, and am familiar with open tunings etc. I have a couple of 6-string lap steels I've fooled about with but I'm shopping for a non pedal 8 string guitar... the sound I'm after is sort of Western Swing & classic C & W/honky tonk. I'm considering buying either an old Fender single 8 steel (like a single-neck stringmaster) or a second hand Sierra 8 string. Are these two guitars wildly different in tone? I know the Fender would have a classic sound, would the Sierra also work great for the type of music I have in mind?

Thanks...

IMHO: With what it sounds like your past experience is and your desires are, I would say to find yourself a pre-JFK 8 string Fender console-type or Magnatone console-type Steel (I recommend a console because it is a better / stable platform to learn proper techniques on than a lap steel IMHO), and a 2 3/4" x 3/4" bar (you'll see why that size when you start learning slants properly), and a decent STEEL foot volume control pedal, .....and Jerry Byrd's video/audio/book course (for THE correct techniques), .....and get 5 OLD Honey Tonk compilation CD's with a bunch of songs on each (they don't have to have steel on all the tracks as long as they are a fair share of songs you recognize and like), and learn to copy the steel parts as a techniques and neck positions learning exercise, .....and any 3 CD's of Jr. Brown for amazement and motivation (90% of Jr's Steel playing is quite easy once you figure out what he's doing), .....then go to this page to get your neck navigation layout and substitution explanations, .....then go to this message chain for the finer and deeper discussions of navigation and substitution, and surf the archives of this Steel Guitar Forum for other subject matter, .....and you'll be well on your way to a grand new world of very enjoyable pickin', usually in an amazingly short time if you woodshed proper techniques! And of course a good personal 1-on-1 teacher is a great asset.

Ron's advice to keep slide and Steel techniques separate is good, .....until you get to where you can play what you want in Steel techniques, at which time the two can be combined with great original effect, especially in the blues sounds that lend quite well to Honey Tonk (illustrated quite well in Jr. Brown's genius with simplicity).

Feel free to email me if I can help in any way.

Aloha,
Denny Turner

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 07 October 2003 at 06:01 AM.]

When are we gonna get together, finally meet face to face, and do some crimes?????

I'm trying to arrange a casual lanai pickin affair here at the house tommorrow (10-8) for a Fellow Forumite visiting from the mainland ...maybe a couple other pickers if we can arrange it on such short order. Be nice to finally meet you ...or some other time in the not too distant future.

Same amp (Fender of course), amp settings, etc as I usually use ... sure made me sound like I was in Texas

I'm a believer that it is not "all in the hands" ... and if I ever had the opportunity to sit in with a Western Swing band (yeah, fat chance) ... I would take the "Dually".

I know that slide and steel are really different. I just wanted to say that I'm not a total beginner -- I have played around with 6th tunings and such but on a 6-string you can't do too much. Ideally I'd like to have a single 8 but with legs so it's stable to play. I have an early 50s Fender Champion (the kind with the telecaster style pickup) and I love the tone of it, just wish it had eight strings. I'd be willing to trade it towards an 8 if anyone is interested.

For a short time I had a longer-scale maple Rickenbacker double 8 that sounded good but the strings were too close together for me, & plus I don't really want a double neck at this point unless I luck into one really cheap. Have never seen an 8 string Magnatone, do they sound good? No one recommends the Gibson consoles? I see them on ebay from time to time (there are a couple of them on there now)

Al

[This message was edited by Allen Kaatz on 08 October 2003 at 01:57 AM.]

The trapezoidal "Direct Contact" pickup as found in the pre-54 Deluxe, Dual Pro, and Custom guitars has a fuller sound... more mid-range... IMHO than the Stringmaster design, given identical amp settings. Many pickers prefer the Direct Contact pickup to the Stringmaster pickup sound, but the vintage guitar market favors the Stringmaster in terms of valuation. Both sound like Fenders, though, and both are excellent guitars to play.

I actually prefer the sound of the DC pickup, but the Stringmaster has a couple of important advantages/improvements over the earlier design. Again IMHO, these are:

1. Smaller body design, with modular neck assembly and more efficient use of body space;

2. The pickup blend control (post 1954 models) that allows a wide variety of tone choice;

3. Four legs on the SM instead of 3 for DP/Custom gives greater stability when playing standing up;

4. Pickup design allows playing in the upper frets more easily, like up in "Joaquin-land." Murph frequently played really high up, like around the 19th fret; on the Dual Pro guitars your hands simply cannot fit into that small a space. The Stringmaster allows playing in those upper regions. Murphey played a Bigsby, BTW.

5. I prefer the tuners on the post-54 guitars, the ones without the "lollipop" buttons.

Having said all the above, I personally own and play a Custom, a Dual Pro, a Stringmaster double and a Stringmaster triple. Each has it's own personality and sound, so what you find might be anybody's guess... but it will probably be a fine guitar if it hasn't been screwed with too much. There was a lot of that going on, as evidenced on eBay.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 09 October 2003 at 08:17 AM.]

Then when you're more comfortable, you can still have a "tight" tuning on one and a "wide" tuning on the other, for a contrast in sound and range.

[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 10 October 2003 at 11:00 AM.]

I compare the early Trapezoid guitars to a Tele, and a Stringmaster to a Strat.

Even though some prefer the Strat for its wider tonal range and sleek body design, some prefer the Tele for it's simplicity and straight forwardness.

I personally prefer the "more straight forward" Dual Pro. I prefer the wider string spacing on a Dual Pro, and even though the four leg design is technically more sturdy, it has a tendancy to wobble. A three leg guitar never wobbles, because all three legs are always firmly on the floor.

I'm guessing it's pretty hard to find parts for these?

I saw J. Murphy in a club in LA once in the late 70s, his playing blew my mind. Any recommended recording by him?

Al

[This message was edited by Allen Kaatz on 10 October 2003 at 12:14 AM.]