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Author
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Topic: Swallows bar vs bullet bar
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Andy Volk
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 09 April 2005 02:16 PM
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My wife surprised me with a very late xmas gift - a Gary Swallows Stevens-type bar. It's a beautiful thing ... crisply machined metal and gorgeous zebra wood. The only thing is, after years of practicing the finger dexterity necessary for reverse and forward slants with a bullet bar using the Swallows is like trying to play while wearing a splint. I have to cock my whole wrist - Bob Brozman style - instead of using the fingers. It also gets caught if you don't lift the front edge. Yeah, pull offs are crisper put that's about the only advantage I can see. the Swallows bar is a work of art that's cool to hold and look at but as a tool ... well the jury's still out. Anyone have thoughts on this?[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 09 April 2005 at 02:17 PM.] |
Gary Boyett
Member From: Colorado
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posted 09 April 2005 02:49 PM
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Gary also makes a round nose bar. You have to have them custome made. I have one on order and I can let you know what I think when it comes. |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 09 April 2005 02:59 PM
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My only words of advice... Make sure you are using this bar when your wife is around.  ------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
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HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 09 April 2005 03:20 PM
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Ah hem......I shall refrain from my normal comments....THIS TIME.
The Swallows bar is a well made nice looking bar, but I cannot get comfortable with them. The top part has my hand sitting up too high and the deep groove holds my finger in place making it difficult to manuever, just as Andy said.
I find the Sheerhorn bar with it's low profile and shallow grooves a lot more comfortable and managable. Still, I would like to have a bar made with shallow "fingerprints" on the top & left side, a shallow groove on the right side, along with a recessed end for easier reverse slants. |
Andy Sandoval
Member From: Bakersfield, California, USA
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posted 09 April 2005 04:30 PM
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Anyone ever use the Shubb Pearse ll steel. I like the feel of it on 6 string lap.  ------------------
55" Fender Stringmaster T8, 54" Fender Champion, Carter D-10, two Oahu laps, two National laps, and two Resonators |
Gary Boyett
Member From: Colorado
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posted 09 April 2005 05:30 PM
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The SP-2 is my favorite. I use it on eight string as well. Works just fine! |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 09 April 2005 06:12 PM
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I don't like the SP2 either. It's too slippery in my hand, the backsides are a little rounded making reverse slants difficult, and whether I use it forward or backward, I don't get the crisp hammer ons and pull offs that I get with the Sheerhorn.[This message was edited by HowardR on 09 April 2005 at 06:13 PM.] |
Loni Specter
Member From: West Hills, CA, USA
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posted 09 April 2005 06:16 PM
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I have a Swallows bar, and like it for playng single not lines, tiped up a bit, not flat on all the strings. I don't think it's made for hawaiian chordal style playing. Dobro licks for sure. |
Bob Stone
Member From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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posted 10 April 2005 09:22 AM
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Andy,I bought a Swallows bar a while back (two years ago?) and love it. In my experience, it just takes time to get used to it. I had been using a chrome plated Scheerhorn and the higher, somewhat less gracefully curved, profile of the Swallows took some getting used to. But now, I think I like it better than I ever liked the Scheerhorn. There is something really nice about the feel of that wood in my hand. I can execute forward and reverse slants with the Swallows bar without any problem. Sometimes it seems that the wood even makes those moves easier. Coming from using a bullet bar to any sharp-nosed bar is going to result in snags, hang ups, etc. that drive you crazy for a while. But with practice you will overcome the difficulties. If you want to play clean, loud pull-offs and hammer-ons on an acoustic steel, I believe a sharp-nosed bar is a necessity. A bullet bar just doesn't work for those techniques on an acoustic guitar. If I'm playing both a bullet bar (for electric) and the Swallows (for reso) frequently enough, I can switch off without any problem. I say give the Swallows a good try for a few months. My guess is you will really like it and will welcome the techniques it adds to your acoustic steel playing as well as that warm, woody feel. Then again, we're all different... Best, Bob |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 10 April 2005 09:43 AM
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I had a bullet bar once, but was afraid to aim it at anybody, never know when those things might go off! |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 10 April 2005 09:49 AM
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quote:
I can execute forward and reverse slants with the Swallows bar without any problem. Sometimes it seems that the wood even makes those moves easier.
That's more or less my experience also (though "without any problems" may be a slight exaggeration in my case.....),- I find it easier to execute slants with the Shallows than the SP-2, but not as easy as with a small bullet bar though.
I love the feel of the wooden handle, it's the most comfortable bar I have, but since I'm used to the SP-2 and bullet bars I get the sharp edge of the Swallow bar caught up in the other strings all the time..
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www.gregertsen.com
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Andy Volk
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 10 April 2005 10:45 AM
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I'm willing to hang in there with the Swallows for a little while, Bob, but my gut tells me that Jerry Byrd was right and no bar is as versitile as a bullet bar. I don't seem to have trouble doing fast pull offs with a bullet and a certain part of my style is based on combining two note chords played via the bullet nose with open strings. Like so ...E Maij7 E-----4--------
B-----4--------
G#---0--------
E-----0--------
B-----0--------
E-----0-------- E minor E-----0--------
B-----0--------
G#---3--------
E-----3--------
B-----0--------
E-----0-------- On the other hand, Jerry Douglas, Mike Auldridge, Harry Manx and Aubrey Ghent don't seem to be hampered by a Stevens-type bar. [This message was edited by Andy Volk on 10 April 2005 at 04:08 PM.]
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Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 10 April 2005 10:50 AM
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Just as a public service----I was most interested to learn more about this but unfamiliar with the product so I googled & I found:
http://www.gssteels.com/  |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 10 April 2005 11:29 AM
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I'm not crazy about the Stevens bar either. It's what I started with but it fell out of favor with me. That's because of its 90 degree angle. It's uncomfortable against the joint where my finger is attached to my hand.The curve of the sheerhorn fits naturally and allows freedom of movement. I don't like chrome either. I prefer stainless steel. 
 [This message was edited by HowardR on 10 April 2005 at 11:31 AM.]
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Peter Jacobs
Member From: Northern Virginia
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posted 10 April 2005 02:09 PM
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I've been using a Shubb SP-2 for a few years -- I like that I can swap from a rounded tip to a straight one, although I use the round end 99% of the time -- no snagging. I suppose if my technique were better, I could do more with the sharp end. But if my technique were better, I could do more, period... Anyone try the Dunlop Lap Dawg? Peter |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 10 April 2005 04:03 PM
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I don't like the Dunlop Lap Dawg because......oh wait, I haven't tried that one...... |
Gary Boyett
Member From: Colorado
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posted 10 April 2005 04:38 PM
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I also have a lap dog. The only problem with it is getting her hair caught in the strings...The lap dawg is similar to the sheerhorn but cheaper. I like it for dobro. not steel. ------------------
JCFSGC member since 2005
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HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 10 April 2005 05:41 PM
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quote:
The lap dawg is similar to the sheerhorn but cheaper
I knew I'd like the lap dawg! 
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Ron Brennan
Member From: Edison, New Jersey, USA
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posted 10 April 2005 08:19 PM
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Hey, that's real good info up there on this post... Me??....I goin to hang out at the "Ol Steel Guitar Bar", yep, with my new bartender Mr. Blackie Phoenix. Yeah, he's mighty slick, he can do slant's, reverses & hammer-on's like no other...send me over a Dram please. Now that what I call a great Bartender!!.... TX
rgds,
Ron ------------------
JCFSC member since 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Stringmaster D8,"59" Stringmaster D6
"67" Telecaster,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10's |
Mark Switzer
Member From: Norwalk, California, USA
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posted 11 April 2005 12:27 AM
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I think a bullet type bar is always going to be better for slants. The only reason to use a Swallow,Lap Dawg or similar bar is to do the hammer-on,pull-off stuff. If you`re playing just electric steels you can probably get enough sound with a bullet, but the loud,snappy pull-offs really need a bar made for that.
I`m using a Lap Dawg at the moment, but after trying one of Tim`s stainless steel bars at the NAMM show, I ordered one from Elderly. Something about it just felt right,enough to part with 80 bucks. I found the Swallow steel comfortable and great for pull-offs but a little too light for hammers.
BTW, I attended an Mike Auldridge class in Nov. and watched him do backward slants all day long with the Stevens type bar he uses without angling his wrist at all. Yes, it can be done.[This message was edited by Mark Switzer on 11 April 2005 at 12:29 AM.] |
Mark van Allen
Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
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posted 11 April 2005 07:59 AM
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One thing about the Swallows Bars, (other than the generic Shubbb GS-1), they're all custom jobs, and you can get them with about any kind of profile, wood, weight, finish, and even carvings... I have several, one with a rounded half-bullet end that is very suitable for 8 string lap. The difference in the woods is very interesting- a Zebrawood one I have is almost sticky, like a raja. Very comfortable. I was fascinated to find that one Gary sent me that had been made for Emily of the Dixie chicks "fit" me better than the one measured for me. Somehow I don't remeber her having the vienna sausage fingers I have... Slants are perfectly do-able with these kinds of bars, but it really comes down to personal style. Anything with a lot of crisp hammer-ons and pull-offs seems to go better with an angled edge bar. The actual angle may be quite critical to comfort. Changing from a 90 degree Stevens style to a Sheerhorn or Swallows with a sharper angle takes some adjustment. I like the sharper angle much better.------------------
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
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Andre Nizzari
Member From: Bronx, New York
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posted 11 April 2005 08:26 PM
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I have a lap dawg and the metal is soft cause it dents very easily.------------------
http://www.andreandthenighthounds.com/ |
David Yannuzzi
Member From: New City, New York, USA
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posted 14 April 2005 05:49 AM
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I started out play lap and useing a broz-ophonic and other bullet bars .When i started playing more bluegrass i could do the hammer on and pull offs with it but the tone was a bit too mellow.
I tried and couldn't get used to the stevens type bars because the edge I was always getting stuck going across the strings. I felt most comfortable with the shubb SP1 .Its about the same length and width of the broz-o-phonic, it has a bullet end and the tone is a bit crisper with some more high end for the bluegrass stuff.Now I am even useing it on lap steel. -Dave[This message was edited by David Yannuzzi on 14 April 2005 at 05:50 AM.] [This message was edited by David Yannuzzi on 14 April 2005 at 10:27 AM.] |
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