So let me take the opposite approach. What guitar would you NOT buy used and why?

Does mechanical "wear" come into play in a used PSG? Do the holes get elongated in belcranks and pivot bearings? Does the additional play really matter or are there adjustments that can make up for the wear?

Are there any specific models that have a weak spot that wears or fails or was just plain poorly designed to begin with that should be avoided?

Did any manufacturer use ball bearings / roller bearings in their guitars or are they all nylon/brass/aluminum sleeve bearing surfaces?

I got the "green weenie" once by using only email and photos. One month later, and $300 worth of parts, I got it working.

I trust the folks here on the Forum, but beware on eBay.

I sincerely apologize to the author.

God bless you,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 24 December 2003 at 01:07 PM.]

I'd say don't buy it if it's over 30 years old. If it is, chances are it's got a lot of wear, and it may be limited in design (such as a single raise/lower). Remember that some parts may be hard to get for not-so-old steels (15 years old), or steels that are no longer made (like an MCI), so make sure it has what you want on it when you buy it. (ZB's are cool, but adding 3 or 4 levers will be a major undertaking in cost and time).

If you're a "newbie", have it checked by a knowledgeable steeler. Chances are, there's one close-by who will be more than happy to help.

Avoid "exotic" steels, like S14s, likewise avoid U12s if all you want to play is country music. (About 97% of all Country steelers play S10's, or D10's.)

Don't "overbuy", either. Most players (including most pros) don't really need 10 floor pedals and 9 knee levers.

Lastly, don't worry about the resale value unless you only plan to keep it less than a year. Also, any avoid "home-made" pedal steels.

I'm sure Carl's heart in in the right place, but his post is way off base.
If you're waiting for a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon, looks like a Porsche, and costs $10K, you're going to be riding the bus forever.
My first guitar is a mid '70's Marlen- I did get lucky because everthing worked. I LOVE thgat guitar to this day- I'd never sell it.
I would say that you'll find a lot of folks who purchased brand new guitars weren't as pleased as they expected.

I'm not sure I follow or agree with Ed's logic of "Within 6 months I'm going to want a different one". I'm hoping to avoid that.

I shopped around for a few years before I chose my wife. I think I can afford to do the same with my next guitar.

Darn you Carl! (not for posting it..but deleting it!) I was just about to comment on something I didn't know about...the vertical knee levers..are there 2 designs...one with a single ended pivot and the other with some other kind of arrangement? I'd like to know more about that.

Ron Preston - That's an easy one to follow!
My checkbook is self limiting.

David- Budgeting between 2 and 3 grand. And I have to sell the ham radio station to raise the first 2,000 otherwise the 1,000 matching fund from the wife will not kick in.

Right now I'm just making up a shopping list of things to avoid and look out for. I'm not actively shopping for a new guitar..just planning ahead. I liked Carl's list of what the "dream" guitar wouldn't have.

I bought my Subaru because the things that I change over the life of the car are easily reached. The starter is on top of the engine, the alternator is right there too, the belts are out front and accessable. The oil filter is not tucked away in a deep recess etc. The McPherson struts are poorly designed in that the brake line has to be dismantled to pull the strut. It's threaded through the bracket..not clipped into it. When I changed the struts I had to bleed the brakes. So I nibbled some of the bracket away so I could pull the brake line off next time wihout disconnecting it altogether. Would that stop me from buying another Subaru? No. I know what to do the next time I buy one. I'd like a guitar I could maintain for 20 years and am willing to modify it for ease of parts replacement but prefer to have one that doesn't need parts to be changed often.

I've seen talk of pedal rods breaking on some guitars... that's the type of thing I think is a defect in design or manufacturing and would like to avoid. Things wear out..I accept that. Things that crack or separate (unless dropped off of a building) have something terribly wrong with them.

[This message was edited by Tom Althoff on 24 December 2003 at 02:08 PM.]

Used cars with "low mileage" might mean they were in the repair shop a lot more than a high mileage vehicle.

A "hardly ever been played" used guitar might mean "Won't hold tuning through a 5 minute song".

I guess that my love for guitars has a lot to do with "personality".
Most times the axes with strong distinct flavors have more bad attached then something more a more moderate, and stable personality.
The beloved Emmons P/P is the perfect example. It's got a sound folks crave but it's a real pain the the elbow to upkeep.

Tom, with your budget you'll have a great selection. Williams makes some awesome guitars for one. You can get a brand new laquer model.

However, after I leave,you may hear Mr. Seymour make a little noise as he heads to the bank to make a deposit!

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Carter-Starter, the cutest little Peavey you ever saw, and now a BJS bar!

I would first recommend a purchase from here in the BUY and SELL area if you can't find a Steel locally.

I have made two very fine purchases from EBAY and a very fine purchase right here on the Forum BUY and Sell.

I like what Donny has stated above as it is simple and offers up legitimate basic starting out information , that a newcomer to Steel would not know.

A single Ten modern era Steel with 3+4 of a known brand or a D10 with 8+4 or more ,of a known brand will do the trick and get you started in the right direction.

Carters, Emmons Legrandes, Mullens, Fessendens, Zum, GFI etc..will all give you a ton of fun from the get go and will serve you well.

I personally would recommend getting a Steel with at least 4 knee levers. Other than that
just like anything else make sure your deal is protected as much as possible against unknowns.

Quite frankly, if you purchase a Steel which is less than 5 or 6 years old the chances of it being in "Erector Set" condition are pretty slim. Chances are you will buy one and play it for six months or so and move on to another anyway..Thats what we do...

And keep this in mind..and you already know this..
You can buy a brand new BMW from the local dealer thats nothing but trouble..so don't be afraid to buy used as you have planned..just know that it's possible it may have a few minor issues that may need attention, the key word is minor.

I bought a D12 MSA ( EBAY)from California which needed severe cleaning and lubrication. After doing that I discovered the guitar was basically brand new, it had just been sittin around for a few decades.

Another EBAY item was a D10 Sho-Bud Professional from Denver.It too needed the rack changer system to be dismantled , cleaned , lubricated and re adjusted. But for a Steel that was basically 30 years old this is normal. After the cleaning it was awesome.

I bought a 3 year old Carter D10 8+5 from a Forum member and that was a great Steel. I ended up trading it locally with a few bucks for another D10 Carter, 9+8 ,and that is my only Steel now. I sold the Sho-Bud and MSA not for any other reason other than I didn't feel like having $$$ wrapped up in guitars in cases, that I tripped over daily.

Good Luck
T

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 25 December 2003 at 03:28 AM.]

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1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SE200

But then also " Long after the joy of low price wears off,
lingers the curse of poor quality."

A trip to a good steel shop is not a bad suggestion at all, even if it is a long drive.

Multiple steels to try, compare, and hear played in competant hands, and also the staff are not gonna be quiet, so you will learn things, not just see or read things.

I did buy my steel, sight unseen (pics only). On the forum.
I did hear it over the phone at my sisters and said give him the cash.
But before I shipped it over here it went to a top notch steel mechanic who went over it top to bottom
and packed it RIGHT. I have not for a moment regetted that.
Thank you Tommy Cass.

I also knew I would become a steel mechanic, because there's only one guy who knows steels anywhere near me.
And no repairs shops for 1,000km... yes that far.

One good clue is :
When you see guys posting, and you see they list 2-3 or more steels that they own, note what they are.
Anybody with 3 steels, knows steels, and chances are they have some pretty good choices.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 25 December 2003 at 08:12 AM.]

If you are ready to spend even $2000, you can get nice, reasonably recent gear here in the Buy and Sell.

for $3k, you can get a quality, new guitar custom built for you, as far as I have seen. There was a gorgeous new Fessenden D10 8+4 I saw here in a shop a little while back, for $2999.

I will add that the thing I was most worried about was getting a steel I needed to "put work into"... even if it's just a copedant change, you don't want to get a guitar that's your first one (practically) and have to tear the thing apart to get it work right. Something recent, or something that's old and has gotten a set up/going over by someone like ricky davis, or billy cooper, or bobbe seymour, or a number of others (can't think of the rest of the names now, sorry...) and you will be very happy, I have no doubt.

It is easier to add things with a guitar that is from a currently existing builder, but if you see/hear something that you really like, that is from a dead company, don't let that necessarily stop you... if it's what you want.

It may be best to do your steel guitar shopping at the ISGC in St. Louis next Labor Day weekend. In the mean time contact all the steel guitar builders listed in the links on the FORUM and request brochures from them and maybe you can narrow down your choices from the brochures you receive.

Roger