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Author
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Topic: How many scale positions?
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Ian Thomas
New Member From: Louisville, Kentucky, USA
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posted 03 March 2004 06:41 AM
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I've been taking guitar lessons and just learned the 6 major scale positions. Is there anything similar for E9 steel? I can think of 3; 1 with no pedals, the AB pedal, and the A pedal LKL position. Are there more I should be learning? |
clive swindell
Member From: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK
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posted 03 March 2004 06:59 AM
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It depends how many strings you are playing. If you are playing 5&8 or 4&5 then 2 frets back from no pedals with your E's lowered is an important major chord position that you need for the scales and melodies on those strings. |
clive swindell
Member From: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK
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posted 03 March 2004 07:00 AM
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Sorry - make that two frets back from A& B pedal position. |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 03 March 2004 07:29 AM
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Try starting on different strings.First play a major scale one octave with no pedals and then add pedals if they help.
In the key of C:1st fret 10th string
10th fret 9th string
8th fret 8th string
7th fret 6th string There are way to many ways to play the same thing in different positions on the steel. Thats the nightmare of learning it and the beauty of its sound. If you really want to learn how scales lay on the steel Joe Wright has a comprehensive system that works. Bob |
Jeff A. Smith
Member From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.
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posted 03 March 2004 08:32 AM
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quote:
I've been taking guitar lessons and just learned the 6 major scale positions.
Not to split hairs, and I know we're not talking about guitar, but there isn't an agreed upon number for major scale positions on the guitar. I started out learning seven, but I've also come across systems that use five or ten.Short of learning how to play the scale in all twelve positions, there is (in my mind) no comprehensive system. Anything less is just a particular teacher's preference, and if you check around you will find that these preferences diverge sharply, even to the point of disagreeing on what the definition of a "position" should be. Sorry for the digression.  |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 03 March 2004 09:08 AM
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dittos Jeff carl |
J Fletcher
Member From: London,Ont,Canada
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posted 03 March 2004 09:10 AM
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There must be an almost infinite number of ways to play the major scale on the E9th tuning, but what would be the most useful 6 or so? Lately I've been practicing a major scale starting on the 10th string and going to the octave on the 5th. It's all in the space of two frets, no pedals. It's helping out my facility on the low strings, noticeably. But I'd really like to improve my understanding and visualization of the fret board, and am looking for ideas towards this end....Jerry |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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posted 03 March 2004 10:21 AM
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Ian, you should look into Karlis Abolins Guitar Map
it's really quite handy and can show you just what you're lookin' for and more
here's the link; http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum4/HTML/005881.html ------------------
Zum D10 9/7-ShoBud Professional D10 8/4- Gibson EH150 - Nashville1000 Steel what? |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 03 March 2004 10:50 AM
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Don't mean to add drift here, but some of the most beautiful pedal steel scales are not done on single strings in a single position, but are harmonized scales with two or three strings moving up the neck using all the positions. This not only provides haunting harmony, but slides (glisses) in both the scale and its harmony that are unique to pedal steel - the moving harmony Bud Isaacs popularized. The first pedal steelers in the '50s, before all the "chromatic strings" were added, became masters of this (Day, Emmons, etc.). And steelers who can do this today get the most respect and awe from me. Sticking to one position is easier. It is more harp-like, but not as soulful. |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 03 March 2004 02:45 PM
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There will be a major scale in all it's inversions for EVERY combination of pedals and levers you have.If the pedaled chord is a diminished, there will still be major scale groupings for all possible cromatic root notes.
they will just be very oddly shaped. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 03 March 2004 05:28 PM
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Here are the "straight across" major scale positions that I use most often (key of C):
fret pedals utilized in scale
1 A, B, C, E, X
3 A, B, C, D
6 A, D, E, F, X
8 A, B, C, E
10 A, B, C, D, G There are many partial scales that I use at other frets, often sliding to or from the frets listed above.------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
Bengt Erlandsen
Member From: Brekstad, NORWAY
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posted 04 March 2004 03:56 AM
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The number of positions should be equal to (or greater than) the number of notes in the chord you are trying to play.
Example:
A 3note chord needs 3 strings to be played, and to play the voicing one one note at a time (scale/arpeggio) one will for the 3 note voicing find 3 positions on the same set of strings (similar to open, A+F and A+B when playing strings 8 6 5)For a 4note voicing/scale there will be 4 positions on the same set of strings. For a 7 note scale there would be 7 positions, some more played at than others because they line up w either open/A+F or A+B positions. Combining single string playing/sliding up/down w playing across will expand the possible number of positions but they are all part of those positions equal to the number of notes in the scale. IMO one should know how the scale is played on 1 string only before one starts to play across or skipping strings. That way one will know what one is doing instead of just remembering a whole lot of patterns without knowing why the patterns look the way they do. Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 04 March 2004 at 04:04 AM.] |
Ian Thomas
New Member From: Louisville, Kentucky, USA
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posted 04 March 2004 05:26 AM
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Thanks for all the responses. Much to mull over regarding something as basic as this. We all must be crazy for trying to figure this instrument out. |
joe wright
Member From: Joelton, TN
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posted 09 March 2004 09:00 AM
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The way I study the guitar is to apply 1 scale to all of the "guitars". In other words, I study each pedal, knee, and combinations as new tunings in the key of C major.Open tuning, B pedal tuning, A pedal tuning...etc. I expand that to include 2 pedal or knees combinations and then 3 in combination. To EACH of those "guitars" I apply one of 54 scales that I've collected... A scale can be 5, 6, 7, or 8 tones and are patterns derived at from the chromatic scale. Examples are pentatonic, Whole tone, major, minor, diminished etc. I usually will live with one "guitar" and a scale for a day or two. Every once in a while I go back and dig out a new "guitar' and look at it through the scales. After living with these you start to see not positions on the neck but the entire fretboard. Possibilities...
I also train my left hand to make generic pattern movements without thinking. As in every fret, every other fret, every third fret....These moves are not just worked on but exercised into the memory to increase dexterity as applied to feel and touch. Of course the study of the fretboard is made so much easier by hands that have a grasp of the basic movements tha create steel guitar music....joe |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 09 March 2004 10:36 AM
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Joe nicely expanded on what I said above. If you think of each pedal, lever or combination as a tuned guitar,
like a non pedal 10 string,
then you look at each scale and where it is. If you come from the non pedal tradion you should be able to play a tune on C6 with P5 and P6 down and still make good music. |
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